Poker in Practice - Advanced Check-Raising (2)

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Welcome to the second part of the series "Poker in Practice". In this video our coach will be talking about advanced check-raising strategy. Enjoy!


check check-raising draw examples FR fullring gameplan pip pippit planning polarization practice raise series Shorthanded

Commentaires (25)

plus récent en premier
  • sensey30


  • Vikavir


  • Jefree


    I like your videos and explanation... good work
  • Varune


    In the 1st example QJs vs 67s on T83r, You say you'd call 67s and raise QJs. Doesn't this fuck your other ranges? I.e. with QJs you could calldown/checkraise on 'scarecards(J+)' that we hit, while 67s would most often have to ch/fold the turn.
    Plus i don't really expect to have that many reverse implieds when we check/raise 67s and hit, cuz then you're expecting villain to bet/call QJ(Ok that's possible), but the backdoorfd, no one is floating with that.
  • w34z3l


    @varune specifically 67s doesn't make a great turn check-raise. But obviously we have to think about every single hand in our range, and there are plenty that make great turn check-raises including some nut draws. Remember that we will still check/call nut backdoors on dry textures, and will also check/call some nut-backdoors on drawy textures in the case of having two backdoors; for example we are drawing to the 3rd nut flush but can also turn the nut-gutshot etc.

    Finally, there should be a small amount of crossover. So not saying we should never check/call some nut-draws either, but we can show a tendency to check/raise them.

    Btw, comparing 2 hands as we did is a good way to illustrate the concepts, but the downside is it causes us to focus too much energy on individual combos. It's not like we only have 2 combos in our range, this was to help us draw comparisons with other types of hands in our range. So in some cases the conclusions you have drawn here might be a side-effect of the way the information was presented.
  • Chikibambori


    why only 4 min?
  • Varune


    i didn't expect that quick of a response, dem RSS feeds? ;)
    But thanks for the extra explanation, agree with what u say.

    @Chiki, The video is for gold+ members, you're only basic at the moment, so u only get a 4min preview..
  • CrazyAnnihilator


    nice =)
  • online89


    Very good :)
  • GingerKid


    great video, nice explanations. Just not agreeing about raising nut GS and nut fd such as KQ on T92, because you have 4 outs to hit GS, but also 6 outs to improve to TP. So if you just call, your top pair is going to be good most of the time, and if you raise and improve to TP, you are in a tough spot, it is a bluff catcher and there are 2 streets to play. So in that case I would prefer calling KQ. if our nut draw has 2 overcards but both overcards are not worth much even if we call flop, like e.g. JsQc on 9d7s8d, then I would prefer raising. On boards where we just have nut draws with 2 overcards which are both good if we call flop and hit, I would call some and raise some.
  • nimenialtul74


    intresg .. but good to know :)
  • JohnyC1337


    You said that being afraid of flop 3bet isnt concern because usually nobody 3b-ships and we can cr/call strong draws (nuts OESD/nut FDs) vs 3bet. But what about turn? What if we spike monsterdraw on the turn with our c/called connector and face 2barrell? We have no sd value so its rly shitty spot if we c/call again and loose vs giveup bluff on the river. And if we decide c/r our big draw on the turn and get shoved on us its shitty as well.
  • clauu1982


  • clauu1982


  • nedl9vsex


  • PLS686


  • CentBetrag


  • ConteCaly


    wonderful video e tp...
    ty coach
  • ionutionut24


  • astraph


  • w34z3l


    14 - yeah, it makes sense. As I mentioned earlier, not saying we should raise certain combos with 100% frequency, just show a tendency towards doing so. Note, that I cannot prove this either.

    Other thing to keep in mind is that if we take one advantage, we will often lose another, so presumably we'd like to know which line has the highest net advantage. For example, it's great to hit a nut draw on the turn with KQ after x/r, way more valuable than hitting nuts OOP after check/calling. And if we turn a pair after x/r it won't always be completely useless, even though it's probably intrinsically less valueable than hitting a pair after just calling the flop. Then again, if we just call, while we get the benefit of increased top pair value, we are missing out on considerable flop fold equity and the ability to make the nuts on the turn and have great implieds.

    So which one is best? Impossible to solve for as far as I know. But I'd imagine the raise is slightly stronger even though it makes turned top pairs less valuable. We may get a fold around 50% of the time but will only hit the K or Q 12% of the time on the turn after x/c. The impact of raising and getting folds has to carry more weight imo, although this is just an opinion. The actual calculation would factor in everything that happens on turn and river. How much do we net when turning a pair after x/c flop. How much implieds to we have when we spike a J after x/r? What is our EV on a K or Q turn card after x/r flop. Difficult stuff.
  • w34z3l


    16 - Implieds odd calculation on the flop should incorporate the possibility of a turn bet. Basic level assumption is that our opponent will fire turn with 100% frequency (obv not true), and therefore our required pot-odds is simply outs*2 (as opposed to 4) along with estimated implieds. In other words it's safest to assume we'll never see a river for free without additional info.

    So the flop call is profitable in itself, regardless of if we get priced out on the turn. We basically perform a completely separate implied-odds calculation for the turn. If we get the pot-odds to call, we call, if not we check our implieds, this is all super familiar to you.

    If we are priced out then we fold, although if our opponent is aggro and out of line, we can consider check/jam turn. Without doing any specific calculations we are unlikely to not be specifically check-jamming the turn allin (if we decide to x/r) after calling flop 3bet. So we don't need to worry too much about being 3bet since we are getting the last say in the hand. Assuming the stacks are deep enough for our opponent to re-jam then we likely just about get the implieds to x/c turn again OOP.
  • msnek


    Perfect stuff ! Thank you so much weazel !
  • leopf84


    thanks.. this series changed my mind
  • VanRatt


    Hi w34z3l, very nice video and explanations. Nevertheless I got some doubts about river barreling with missed draws. How do you calculate the frequency with which you fire river with missed draws? Would you just fire all of them every time? Would you fire all of them some % of the time? Or would you fire only the better ones (the ones that block our opponent's calling range and don't block his/her folding range) ?
    Also, I would like to know what's your approach when you x/r a strong made hand on the flop and the turn card completes a possible flush or straight draw. Do you keep barreling turn? What about river?
    A follow up video on these specific topics would be much appreciated to be able to build a complete strategy for turn and river play after x/raising flop.